Spending your loot, part 2: knighthoods, baronies and sainthoods

Your PCs have bought everything in the player handbook, your campaign doesn't have magic shops and so they're still drowning in gold. Here's a pricelist for positions in the church, nobility and other places - set yourself up with a nice retirement package or get a buddy appointed as knight, guild master, bishop or saint! 

We also find how many cardinals's arms you need to twist to swing the appointment of a new Archbishop.

Part 1 of this series looked at existing ways to siphon cash from your PCs' coffers. Part 3 tackles places to live. Part four lets you build a lab, library or shrine to further your spellcasting.

Update: after switching from XP-for-gold to milestone leveling, I expect to hand out less loot. Which means I'll change the numbers below to keep them in the range of players' expected wealth. New numbers in red, and I'll keep the old numbers in case someone is playing XP-for-gold with the 5e XP charts.

WHY I'M SETTING A PRICE ON POSITIONS

These posts started out as a way to put a price tag on a PC's retirement. It grew to be a bit more detailed than I'd planned.

Player characters tend to make a lot of money, whether you're using xp-for-gold or not. They can keep improving their magical gear and tackling harder enemies, sure. But what if they've had enough and want to retire? What kind of retirement can money buy? Perhaps a farm, or ownership of a quarry. A knighthood with a supporting manor. Or shoot for the king's crown itself!

And hey, why wait until retirement?

In this post I've taken the positions listed in Skerples' treatise on the Three Estates and Investments, added a few more, and attached a price to each one. Part 3 in this series will take a look at places to live and how to outfit them. Part 1 talked about the heaps of gold problem in D&D and listed some existing solutions.

Source material per section is called out under each heading. Most links will lead to Skerples over at Coins and Scrolls, who has collected tons of source material and has a gift at turning it into gameable ideas. Let me know all the stuff out there that I missed.

Digression: why not a simple retirement system?

I've played with the thought of playing with Goblin Punch's retirement system; multiply a character's wealth and level, and compare with certain thresholds to find how well they'll do when they quit adventuring. Positions can be flavored in but aren't really part of the system.

In the end I decided that I didn't want PC level to play a role in retirement; especially not by making it cheaper to retire at higher level. And I just loved the idea of having a price list for every job under the sun for maximum player options.

Digresion: a measure of influence

Up til now, I've used lists of income by position as a gauge for how much wealth an official can throw at problems from their own purse before they have to dip into their organisation's funds. The cardinal can only hire assassins to hunt you for so long before he has to to dip into the Church's coffers and risks getting caught, that kind of thing.

A POSITION OF POWER

There's an unspoken assumption I've seen in RPGs: rulers and officials are NPCs who either plot or maintain the status quo; players are the underdogs who shake things up and fight for...justice, revenge, the hell of it, until the end of their life or the end of the campaign. Often both. PCs may be part of the Three Estates, but mostly they are adventurers.

Which is a very Outcast way of thinking.

My players rarely signal they want to get into a position of power. There are no castles being built. Then again, base D&D doesn't seem to provide a clear road to becoming a baron. Does that send the message that becoming a ruler may be Not For PCs? From now on, these roles are definitely on the table.

I've included the office of the King and even the Archpriest of the Church of the Authority. Obviously those need to be on the menu, if only to test the system. But also because it would be hilarious for a party to decide they want to get one of their own to the very top.

At what price high office, though? I've taken threefive times a position's annual income but will deviate from that in places. Comparisons of prices with incomes are at the bottom of the post in a field test.

AND HOW WILL SIR BE PAYING FOR THAT?

Everything has a price, but not all currencies are created equal. In addition to gold coins, gems and art, you can add magic items or an existing position in the same category to the mix. Be reasonable - the Church will not be especially interested in magical swords (except for the Order of St. Ferragun) nor the nobility for an amulet of faith, so count those for 1/2 their value.

• Someone already in the hierarchy of their new position (a bishop aiming for cardinal, but not a mercenary captain aiming for a barony) can apply half the basic cost of their current position to the funds required to get into the new one. A cardinal (200,000 gp) will need "only" 300,000 - 100,000 = 200,000 gp gold to become Archbishop. Positions in other hierarchies are meaningless here.

• If you manage to get the support of people in the relevant hierarchy, they can apply 1/4 their cost to appoint to the new position. People from different hierarchies (like a King supporting a cardinal to be) add only 1/5th their cost. This represents strong political support as well as serious funds being diverted. Only NPCs can apply this kind of boost (you're abstracting their war chest; for PCs, you know how wealthy they are) and that only once per year. See the Archbishop case at the bottom of the post for an example.

CHURCH POSITIONS

Every hunk of muscle wants to be a knight or baron or duke or king. Let them handle the tedious ruling and warring - the Church is richer than all the petty nobles combined and wields more influence.

I already have a table with the monthly income for every position in the Church based on their rank and title. Below are those tables with the annual income and cost to appoint added.

But first, let's get you into Heaven.

All Saints painting by Fra Angelico

Sainthood for sale

Your buddy died and you want to make sure they don't go to hell - or you want to get a religious order started in their name. But can you put a price on Sainthood? It turns out this is easy to do, because we can take the numbers from real life.

Say what?

You didn't think getting someone confirmed as a saint in real life was free of charge, did you? It turns out the campaigns to confer sainthood cost anywhere between $250,000 and $1,000,000. Those costs are partly to perform due diligence - the Vatican needs to confirm that actual miracles were performed and that takes people time to perform research. HuffPost writes that a good PR blitz also seems an important part of the process. And the Financial Times unveiled that off the book donations up to $40,000 "helped speed the process".

We now have a real-life cost to get sainted - how does that translate to gold pieces? Luckily, Coins and Scrolls worked out a conversion rate of $100 to 1 gp, or a copper piece to the dollar. I don't doubt the analysis, but this leads to cheapo sainthoods. I'll double the price, like so:

• Major Saint * - 20,000 gp to appoint
• Minor Saint # - 10,000 gp to appoint
• ...get a minor Saintly Order started in your name: +100% price of Sainthood @
• Blessed # - 2500 gp to appoint. Guarantees your entry into Heaven

*     you'll also need to be canonized as a bishop at minimum, for 18000 gp.

#     you'll need to be confirmed as a priest at least, for 300 gp.

@     that includes 100% of any cost to be appointed as bishop or priest.

Forgotten Realms: a wackjob cultistcleric for every occasion.

Ordained clergy

Income tables per Estate by Coins and Scrolls

The Ordained oversee spiritual matters of people in a parish or bigger domain. They may sell Indulgences and perform Services. Note that priests and below actually lose money due to low income and maintenance costs that keep their church building from falling down. It still costs money to be appointed as a priest. Make up the deficit by selling Indulgences.

rank	position	monthly income (gp)	annual income (gp)	to appoint (gp)
13	Archpriest	[rank] x 750	117000	300000* 150000
11	Cardinal	[rank] x 500	66000	200000*100000
	Patriarch	[rank] x 300	36000	180000 90000
9	Archbishop	[rank] x 250	27000	135000 65250
8	Bishop	[rank] x 100	9600	48000 24000
7	Bishop	[rank] x 100	8400	42000 21000
6	Bishop	[rank] x 100	7200	36000 18000
5	Bishop	[rank] x 100	6000	30000 15000
4	Bishop	[rank] x 100	4800	24000 12000
3	Bishop	[rank] x 100	3600	18000 5000
2	Priest	-4	-96	300 150
1	Village priest	-2	-24	100 50
	Deacon	0	0	60 30

* I reduced these from the 330,000 and 585,000 gp it ought to be (going 5x annual income) to bring them into a more accesible range for players. Else only a party four strong of level 18+ each, investing half their wealth, would have a shot. Realistic perhaps, for the most powerful positions in the world, but effectively impossible for most .

People underestimate the stress of high office.

Holy Orders / cloistered

People in Holy Orders lead a life of quiet contemplation as a nun or a monk, either cloistered or traveling the world. Vows of poverty are popular and are corrupted all the time. People in Holy Orders may not automatically perform Services or sell Indulgences. Many monasteries have one or more of their Order sanctified as a Priest to this end (see above).

rank	position	monthly income (gp)	annual income (gp)	to appoint (gp)
9	Grand Master	[rank] x 200	21600	108000 54000
8	Master Superior	[rank] x 200	19200	96000 48000
8	Provincial Superior	[rank] x 100	9600	48000 24000
7	Provincial Superior	[rank] x 100	8400	42000 21000
7	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	8400	42000 21000
6	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	7200	36000 18000
5	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	6000	30000 15000
4	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	4800	24000 12000
3	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	3600	18000 5000
2	Abbot / Abbess	5 (corrupt: [rank] x 100)	2400	12000 3000
1	Monk / Nun	0  (5 if corrupt)	60	300 150
0	Initiate	0 (1 if corrupt)	12	60 30

Nuns and monks. No, not the wuxia motherfuckers you were thinking of. Source.

NOBLE POSITIONS

Tax system by Coins and Scrolls

Piggybacks on his counties-to-baronies generator, part 1, 2, 3

If you want to roll less dice, use my Duchy generator based on the tile game Carcassonne. It produced my current Belswick setting.

Calculating Nobles' incomes gave me a headache: their income is based on the area of land they manage, not directly to their rank. I think I've found an ok solution.

The table below gives nobles' upkeep (annual cost to maintain their rank), their expected annual revenue (what a chore that was to calculate - more after the table) and the cost to appoint someone to each rank. You can calculate the discretionary income (income minus upkeep) on your own.

Remember how I make the cost-to-appoint equal to five times a person's annual revenue? That didn't work out here. Following the tax system, nobles earn way less then the clergy. And this makes sense. A noble's wealth is in their lands, labour and military force, less in sheer volume of gold. Hence a factor of ~10 instead of 5.

rank	ruler	annual income (gp)	annual upkeep (gp)	to appoint (gp)
12	King	22200	1728	240000 120000
11	Sovereign Prince	16000	1584	220000 110000
11	Prince	14900	1584	220000 110000
10	Sovereign Duke	13900	1440	200000 100000
10	Duke	11300	1440	100000 50000
9	Marquis	9800	1296	90000 45000
8	Count	8600	1152	80000 40000
7	Viscount	7500	1008	70000 35000
6	Baron	3600	864	30000 15000
6	Baron	3000	864	26000 13000
6	Baron	2600	864	22000 11000
5	Baronet	2100	720	20000 10000
4	Manor Lord / Lady	600	576	8000 4000
3	Courtier	500	432	6000 3000
2	Gentleman	300	288	4000 2000
1	Provincial gentleman	200	144	2000 1000
0	Squire	84	42	500 250

Holding court while preparing for the hunt - Gaston Phoebus, Le Livre de la Chasse

Honorary positions

Coins and Scrolls' Three Estates again. Goldmine.

Not every noble has their own domain to rule; they are supported by courtiers and heralds and stewards. Here's how you get those plum jobs.

position	monthly income (gp)	to appoint (gp)
Butler	38 gp	8000 4000
Companion / retainer	13 - 40 gp (rank 1 - 3)	2-6 1-3 x1000
Court Wizard	36 gp	8000 4000
Herald	38 gp	8000 4000
Sherriff / Sargent	30 gp	6000 3000
Steward	36 gp + 5% of domain's revenue	2000 2000

A butler oversees all a castle's affairs, including military defense. Companions and retainers round out a ruler's court - they are a way to show off one's wealth. Expect minor offices like master of the hunt, officer of the armory. Court wizards are rare - you don't ennoble a dirty wizard for no reason. A herald can act as a roving agent but also has a role in organizing a Formal Court where matters of high importance are decided on. The sherriff represents the King and maintains law in a domain, while a steward administers a domain on a lord's behalf while they attend to other obligations. (Such as tramping around the wilds with four hungry hobbits, a lout, a dwarf, an elf and a wizard in tow.)

Digression: nobles' income calculation for the terminally bored

Nobles' earnings are based on the land they administer, while their monthly upkeep to maintain their rank is fixed. For a knight in a manor, I can use the revenue of the manor (see further below), but for larger domains I had to find another solution.

A baron's revenue varies wildly based on the amount and development of their domain. I ended up averaging over the baronies in my Duchy Belswick and using that as the income for a medium-sized barony; larger and smaller baronies earn a fraction or multiple.

Viscounts and above get taxes from their barons and own a barony or two themselves. I did the calculation once for Duke Bertram in my large Duchy Belswick. Counts, marquises, earls and viscounts rank lower and raise a fraction of Bertram's revenue; (sovereign) princes to sovereign dukes earn more. The king himself, I gave an income equal to a duke's, with five baronies added as Royal Domains.

COMMONERS

Everything from trade guild positions to the dean of an arcane lodge and mercenary ranks. I'm largely pulling these numbers out of thin air. Let me know if you spot loopholes or obvious mistakes!

Investments

This post started out as a way to put a price tag on retirement. For low level characters, Coins and Scrolls' option of investments may be all they can afford.

The idea is simple: spend an amount of money, and collect monthly profits (after paying wages, tools etc) of 0.1% the investment. Invest 500 gp for 5 sp/month or 6 gp/year; 1000 gp for 1 gp/month or 12 gp/year, and so on.

Suggestions: an inn or a tavern, a quarry, a mine, a brothel, a shop, a workshop, a forest to get quality wood from, a position as tax gatherer or toll booth keeper, harbor rights, an investment in a shipping company.

Positions

Want to join a trade guild, a merchant's lodge, an arcane college or a mercenary company? Here's how. (I know it says "craftsman", "journeyman" - mostly open to all sexes.

Trade guilds 

These range from craftsmen like smiths, carpenter and leatherworkers to shipping merchants. Use the apprentice level for any entry position, like a young jeweler or a simple sailor. Master craftsmen can be ship captains.

trade guild positions	monthly (gp)	annual (gp)	to appoint (gp)
merchant prince	600	7200	36000 18000
guild master	300	3600	18000 9000
guild administrator	50	600	3000 1500
master craftsman	25	300	2500* 350
journeyman	15	180	1200* 200
apprentice	7	84	600 100

* the value of pieces created during time as an apprentice and journeyman counts towards the cost to be appointed to the next level in the guild.

Mercenary companies
Not the safest lifestyle, but at least you now have a larger group to take care of you. Much obliged to, who else, Skerples for pointing me to info about the earnings of mercenary companies.

Mercenaries are organized in smallest units of a lance - an armored man-at-arms, their squire/archer, and their page.

Skerples is currently working out a pointcrawl of 14th Century Italy with much machiavellian machinations over at Coins and Scrolls and just posted about mercenery captains and what they got up to - go check it out.

Note: these real world-based incomes are a bit below those for craftsmen and way below those for nobles, clergy and heretical wizards. So how does a mercenary get rich? Not off their pay - but by looting and ransoming captured opponents. I think these prices to appoint are fine as-is.

mercenary troop	monthly (gp)	annual (gp)	to appoint (gp)
Captain / Condottiero	20	240	1200
Lieutenant	12	144	720
Man-at-arms / knight	8	96	192 - 384*
Squire/Archer	4	48	96 - 192*
Page	1	12	24 - 48*

* This represents a pledge in case the mercenary defaults or deserts on their service; in this case, a respected member of society is liable for 2-4 times the annual pay of a mercenary

 

The French army gets schooled by a band of mercenaries - do these underhanded tactics look like something your PCs might cook up to you? Yeah, thought so.

Bataille de Brignais (1362). L'armée française est vaincue par les Grandes Compagnies, bandes de mercenaires ravageant la France pendant la guerre de Cent Ans.

Landsknechte: professional warriors. High skill and high collateral damage. Again, remind you of anyone?

"Die fünf Landsknechte", Radierung von Daniel Hopfer, um 1530

 

Wizardly orders!
Join the ranks of the mad who besiege all that is ordered and quiet with needless experiments. Need to be able to cast wizardly spells or fake it well enough.

• Wizards aren't paid in money alone. An archmage has access to their order's entire library of spells and pays 1/4 the regular amount (12.5 instead of 50 gp/spell level) to learn a new spell. Deans and masters pay 1/2 the amount. Adepts pay 3/4. Most orders give you free access to 1 spell per character level anyway.
• War wizards can earn 5 gp per week of active combat. Disreputable wizards that were not trained in a chartered order earn 3/5 this amount. Experts from the Fraternity of the Comet earn double.

You'll note these incomes are low compared to nobles and the clergy. That's because few people hire a wizard full-time; you hire them to solve a problem and be done with it. A profitable business is thus to sell spells by the casting, perhaps with travel costs added if the client lives far away.

• Spellcasting service per spell: spell level x caster level x 10 gp (half for cantrips). Spells up to level 6 are available (earn 660 gp minimum!), because the Church has forbidden and destroyed or hidden all higher level arcane magic. Bards, clerics, druids and rangers are fine to cast this higher level stuff.

Keep in mind that an apprentice fresh out of college owes an enormous debt of d10 x 5000 gp, payable in monthly installments of money, spells, arcane finds or lab equipment of 1/500th that. You're allowed to count half the value of non-cash installments as a down payment on the cost for a higher position. In effect, you're showing that you have the skills to enrich en enlighten the order.

wizard guild positions	week of war (gp)	monthly (gp)	annual (gp)	to appoint (gp)
archmage	25	800	9600	48000 48000
dean	18	450	5400	27000 13500
master	15	375	4500	22500 11250
adept	10	150	1800	9000 1500
in a noble's employ	5	0.5	6	30 30

Wizard guild turned ruling caste: the Red Wizards of Thay.

COMPARISON AND FIELD TEST

Should it be more affordable to crown a king then to get a cardinal appointed? Are the upper positions even feasible for a PC to buy? Let's run a couple of tests. Using xp-for-gp, we can estimate those PCs' wealth. I'm using the 5e XP chart. (Numbers weren't adjusted after my rescaling of prices above.)

I'll look at three ways to fund each position:

• 4 PCs who want to throw up to 20% of their wealth
• 4 PCs who are willing to invest 50% of their wealth
• 1 PC who is willing to invest 50% of their wealth

Case 1 - torchbearer to tavern keep

One of your henchmen has taken wounds for you and lost a leg. You decide to buy them an inn worth 800 gp to support them in life. After all expenses like wages, basic meals, supplies and servants' wages, this generates 8 sp revenue every month, roughly what a worker earns.

• 4 PCs, 20% of wealth: possible at 1000 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 3
• 4 PCs, 50% of wealth: possible at 400 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 2
• 1 PC, 50% of wealth: available at 1600 gp total wealth, a bit over level 3

These PCs are still starting level adventurers, and for relative novices this is a nice retirement option.

Case 2 - graverobber to guild master

Urriz the Vast has grown, let's put this delicately, too damn fat to move. Time to retire. He decides he wants to become guild master of a shipping guild: cost 6250 gp. He pleads with his buddies to set him up well and promises very favorable fares on future transport.

• 4 PCs, 20% of wealth: possible at 7812.5 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 5
• 4 PCs, 50% of wealth: possible at 3125 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 4
• 1 PC, 50% of wealth: available at 12500 gp total wealth, almost level 6

Still very attainable for a lower level group.

Case 3 - knave to knight

After more than a year of adventuring and dutifully paying taxes, the still piss-poor party finally figures out that a) nobles themselves don't pay revenue taxes and so b) it'd save a lot of money if one of their own held a knighthood to avoid dodging taxes. The baron is fine with this - he's earned a lot of taxes from this group and a knight would anchor his influence over the area. 

The bill ends up 2000 gp for a rank 1 knighthood (provincial gentleman) and a further 1500 gp (see future post) for a large farm that yields exactly the 12 gp to cover the knight's monthly upkeep.

• 4 PCs, 20% of wealth: possible at 4375 gp total wealth per PC, between level 4 and 5
• 4 PCs, 50% of wealth: possible at 1750 gp total wealth per PC, between level 3 and 4
• 1 PC, 50% of wealth: available at 7000 gp total wealth, a bit over level 5

Again, a fine goal to aspire to for low-level PCs.

Case 4 - counterfeiter to count

Lady Dragomira has grown fond of both her health and creature comforts. Time to parlay that into a position of power. A straight-up appointment as count normally costs 80,000 gp, but Dragomire already is a Manor Lady (8000 gp). Cost to appoint: 76,000 gp.

• 4 PCs, 20% of wealth: possible at 95,000 gp total wealth per PC, just below level 12
• 4 PCs, 50% of wealth: possible at 38,000 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 8
• 1 PC, 50% of wealth: available at 152,000 gp total wealth, a bit under level 15

A hard to reach goal, but possible if the party really puts their minds to it. An Archbishop (income 27,000 gp annually) would have to save their full income for 3 years to swing this appointment.

Case 5 - the Archbishop

The big one, mightier and certainly richer than kings. Cost to appoint a new Archbishop: a stunning 300,000 gp.

• 4 PCs, 20% of wealth: not possible - 375,000 gp total wealth per PC is just out of reach for level 20
• 4 PCs, 50% of wealth: possible at 150,000 gp total wealth per PC, a bit over level 14
• 1 PC, 50% of wealth: not available at 600,000 gp total wealth, way over level 20

Level 20 PCs are worth 355,000 gp in 5th edition. A high level party can outright buy the Archbishop's seat. If a group can get the full financial support of three Cardinals and a King for their candidate (3x 200,000/4 = 150,000 gp + 240,000/5 = 48,000 gp - that blackmail info better be rock solid), they'd need to gather 102,000 gp for this venture. 4 PCs investing half their wealth could do at 51,000 gp total wealth per PC - a bit over level 9. Of course they're actually the catspaws of the cardinals and the king in this venture.)

Interestingly, we now know the deciding number of votes needed to elect a new Archbishop: if each cardinal's vote contributes 50,000 gp to the cost, six cardinals can decide the election. This assumes these six are throwing in more than just their political clout, they're dipping deep into their coffers to bribe, blackmail, assassinate and otherwise influence the other members of the 120 strong Council of Cardinals.